Nick Griffin interview –

March 2005

by Kevin Widdop – kevinwiddop@yahoo.co.uk

A typical day in the life at the helm of a far-right

organisation is a bit like a day in the life at any

other party, really. "Go through e-mails, most of that

is organisational work, demonstrations of some sort,

party publications - usually write two articles a week

for the web site, an article per month for the

magazine 'Identity' and the party paper 'Freedom'. An

average day would be spent somewhere in the country,

speaking to key people in the region, the local area;

in the evening making a speech, quite a wide section."

So, pretty normal, then.

That's until the conversation meanders into a

stream

of anything vaguely controversial - like, say, a

policy.

Listening to Griffin's portrayal of what

society

would be like under a BNP government is a little like

an inversion of Philip Roth's The Plot Against America

- a revisionist history of America under the

Hitler-supporting aviator Charles A. Limbergh.

"People don't have to do national service, but

if

they don't, they don't get any rights," he says

without restraint. But then he says, contradicting

himself, "all young people would do national service."

Founded in 1982 by John Tyndall, co-founder of

the

National Front, the BNP have tried to waive off

accusations of being a racist organisation. Griffin's

arrest in December for suspicion of incitement to

racial hatred has done for the party. He will be

charged on April 6 for what he calls "cynical

politicking."

How did it come about? "I was told it was

ordered by

one of the highest sources in government. Blunkett,

Blair, Frank Dobson - one or other of the three."

Son of Edgar Griffin, who was sacked from Iain

Duncan

Smith's Tory leadership campaign in October 2001 for

his affiliation with the BNP, Nick studied law at

Cambridge and now lives with his four children in

Mid-Wales. His kids are immersed in the BNP's every

nuance, too. "My daughter is heavily involved in

running the young BNP"; his middle daughter is making

"a recording project," but, he adds, doesn't “believe

in forcing them to do these things." It sounds like

one big politically active happy family.

The philosophy behind the formation of the

British

National Party, was to offer a third way between

capitalism and communism. What does he think of that

other, less contentious political philosophy? "Yep,

it's a phony", he says laughing his resonant,

resounding laugh.

To say that some of Griffin's replies are

incendiary

is like saying Richard and Judy are a soft,

sycophantic touch - a big, fat, unmistakable fact.

From his views on homosexuals to paedophiles,

political celebrities to veritable politicians, he

unleashes a salvo of virulence that would make Bernard

Manning squirm.

I tell him, somewhat mischievously, and

truthfully,

that it's Queer Week at the University of Leeds. "It's

what?" he asks. "Oh," he says, comprehendingly. "It

[homosexuality] is an unfortunate affliction. They

should be put back in the closet and the door should

be firmly shut."

Ok. And the paedophile problem in Keighley,

which is

layed squarely at the door of Muslims? "They cannot be

cured. Society has to decide what to do with them -

does chemical castration cure them? In the case of the

ones that kill, they should definitely be executed.

We're campaigning against Muslim paedophiles who

commit brutal racist attacks on young whites."

And the Holocaust, Nick. Are you a denier?

"That's

wholly inaccurate. Clearly the Holocaust happened." So

where did this falsehood come from? "I've questioned

the numbers. It's something for historians. I believe

everything at the Nuremberg trials was true." How many

do you think were murdered? "Precisely 6m. That's what

the law says I must believe. I'm quite happy to go to

prison for something worthwhile, but not for talking

about that."

All this might bolster the view that the

chairman is

a jingoist? But a fascist? Well, some media reports

have depicted him as such. How does he feel about it?

"It's fundamentally undemocratic, particularly the

BBC. Previously we couldn't complain - we scored a lot

of own goals. But the 68' [media] generation, who were

probably Marxists, held a deep-seated hostility

against us."

When you hear Griffin say that "more than

anyone

else, I would say we diffuse racial hatred," you start

to think that perhaps his logic is more than a little

skewed - and this hostility might not be without

foundation. "It's the media and the police - hate

anybody, hate them."

I tell him I'm sitting outside the Parkinson

steps

where a group of international students segues into a

sea of white and black - and then back again,

laughing and joking, enjoying life at university. What

would his policy towards these students be? "Let them

finish their degree and send them back. We're not in

the business of providing education for people from

Taiwan."

But don't foreign nationals add to the

country,

rather than detract? "To some extent they do. But many

of them are unemployed. In areas like the health

service the government exaggerates how important

foreign staff are."

Back in 2003, Chris Beverly and Mark Collett,

University of Leeds graduates, and members of the

party, were banned from Leeds Students' Union.

Collett, banned from LUU in November 2003 after

pouring abuse on and assaulting members of the

Anti-Nazi League in April 2002, told Leeds Student

last year: "Jews have been thrown out of every country

- there's no smoke without fire."

Griffin says of the Jewish question - "They're

now

realising that if the West goes under, all Jews get

their throats cut."

Like Burnley and other BNP seats, Keighley,

where

Griffin is standing, has a strong Asian community.

Racial tensions are high and pervasive and the party

has used this as fuel to throw on the fire. What of

his Labour candidate Ann Cryer, who currently holds

the seat? "An anti-white racist bigot." He continues

confidently, "Labour have turned their backs on the

white working-class. We could win the seat."

Griffin's political doctrine seems, initially,

sensible, but quickly lapses into the world of the

nonsensical. "We believe the country should be run by

the people who are elected." That's a view most people

would share, I tell him. "The government doesn't do

anything to protect ordinary people or their rights."

More of a moot point that. "We're not state

socialists, we're a party of small government - we

don't trust politicians. We would have a bonfire of

government and bureaucracy." And will people vote for

the racist facet? "The BNP cannot be racist. White

people cannot be racist." Why not, I ask bemusedly?

"We don't have any power."

That some find this abrasive rhetoric

appealing,

however, - in Yorkshire and further afield - is both

shocking and revealing. The BNP speak to the

disaffected and seem to be worryingly tapping into

that discontentment. "Hard cash speaks loudest," he

says of the party's exponentially rising turnover. "In

2003 we had a turnover of above £600,000; I'd be

surprised if this year’s turnover didn't break the £1m

mark. It's a sign of how much we're improving."

Now 46, I ask Griffin, eloquent throughout, is

there

anything he is repentant about? "One lives and learns

and grows up. There are things I wouldn't do again."

But then he adds the caveat that racism doesn't really

mean anything. Oh, Nick.